Tyson Fury addresses mental health as he prepares for rematch with Deontay Wilder
Tyson Fury has proven to be enigmatic and complicated, but he also rarely hesitates to speak about sensitive topics. He’s a boxer who pulls no punches.
For example, one day last week, he tells visitors he has been depressed since the minute he woke at 6 a.m.
Exactly why his mood swings as violently as his fists he can’t quite explain. He is surrounded by friends, family and comfort, yet it wasn’t until a training run three hours after he woke that Fury felt fine again.
The 31-year-old certainly looks relaxed now. He has chosen to give a scheduled interview while soaking in his backyard hot tub, his arms stretched back, elbows resting on the ledge.
On Feb. 22 at MGM Grand on the Las Vegas Strip, the unbeaten heavyweight will meet Deontay Wilder in a rematch of their controversial split draw Dec. 1, 2018, at Staples Center. The fight will take place about 10 miles from where he’s sitting, before a sold-out crowd and huge pay-per-view audience. But rather than discussing Wilder, the conversation turns toward another opponent, one that has knocked down Fury and beaten him more than once.Mental health issues.
During a stretch from 2015 through 2018, Fury was a shadow of himself because of his addictive personality. Shortly after reaching the climax of his career in 2015 by upsetting long-reigning heavyweight king Wladimir Klitschko for multiple world titles, the British-born boxer who’d climbed his personal Mt. Everest quickly collapsed. He was battling daily thoughts of suicide even when he had nothing to be upset about.
With a career-defining win in his back pocket, Fury felt he had no purpose left in life. There was nothing else for him to dominate or destroy. He melted mentally and folded when a path for greatness was there for seizing.
To battle his anxiety and depression, he unraveled by abusing alcohol and cocaine and ballooned to over 400 pounds. His binges were disastrous and crazy. He gained so much weight that he couldn’t even tie his shoes.
Tyson Fury keeps his demons at bay while readying for a rematch with fellow unbeaten heavyweight Deontay Wilder, who battled him to a draw in their first bout.
Thinking he had nothing else to offer, the married father of five drove his Ferrari 190 miles per hour one day, straight toward a bridge to end his life. Suddenly, he heard a voice that told him to stop. He pulled over, shaking and crying. He promised himself he’d never think about taking his life again.
“Depression, anxiety, mental health issues — I’ve had them my whole life, and probably will do until the day I die,” Fury said. “When you’ve achieved your goals, then mental health will really come into play because you don’t have anything to focus on anymore. For a long time, I wanted to die on a daily basis. Mental [illness] will bring you to your knees. Boxing and training brought me back.”
Fury felt that if he was ever going to heal, he had to get fit first — not to fight, but for his own health and sanity. Fury didn’t box until he was 16 years old, but he was a gym rat alongside his brothers and cousins. He realized that training was, and still is today, his medicine, his therapy, his refuge.
Fury, who currently owns an undefeated record of 29 wins, 20 by knockout, and that one disputed draw against Wilder, pieced his life back together, losing nearly 150 pounds to resume his career in 2018.
Fury was born to Irish travelers of Gypsy heritage, eight weeks premature and all of one pound at birth. John Fury, a heavyweight boxer in the 1980s, named his son after his favorite fighter — Mike Tyson. The doctor advised the name was not a wise decision because he didn’t believe the infant would become a big man.
Boxers Deontay Wilder, left, and Tyson Fury face-off during a press conference in Los Angeles on Jan. 13 ahead of their re-match fight in Las Vegas on Feb. 22.
(Frederic J. Brown / AFP via Getty Images)
Fury stands today 6 feet 9. He’s reduced his weight to just over 250 pounds, and credits his 27-year-old former trainer, Ben Davison.
“When you’re battling in your own mind, that’s the hardest fight anyone can ever have,” Fury said. “Boxing to me is like being a fish in the water. I was born to do it. I have no other interests or hobbies outside of boxing.”
After two tuneup bouts in the summer of 2018, Fury faced Wilder, the WBC champion, that December and mostly outboxed the 2008 Olympic bronze medalist, landing 84 punches to his 71. He succumbed, however, to Wilder’s devastating right hand twice and suffered two knockdowns, including a vicious one in the 12th round.
But much like he’d done in his personal life, Fury unexpectedly rose and continued fighting to the final bell. Many observers believed he should have won by decision, but more importantly, he resuscitated his standing in the sport.
Fury will again meet Wilder (42-0-1, 41 KOs) next month on ESPN and Fox pay-per-view, hoping to settle the score away from the judges’ cards with a definitive knockout.
“I’m not worried about the fight. It’s just another boxing match for me,” Fury said. “Getting punched in the face is nothing. When you’ve been to where I’ve been, I’ve been hit harder than any man has ever punched me in his life, with mental illness. Boxing is easy compared to that.”
Since his comeback, the frank and forthright Fury has made himself a relatable figure for those fighting mental health issues. He sends uplifting and encouraging messages on social media to others suffering.
Boxer Tyson Fury sits in a jacuzzi following an early morning workout in Las Vegas.
(Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times)
On the flip side, he also understands being an entertainer, as evidenced by his outlandish antics and his recent turn as a WWE wrestler. Fury wears suits with images adorned with his own likeness. He’s nicknamed the Gypsy King, but has never listened to the band’s songs. He’ll charm viewers with his gregarious personality by sticking out his tongue at opponents, and sing in the ring to his wife, Paris, after victories. Then he’ll self-destruct and turn off fans with offensive remarks about women, religion and homosexuality.
“Anything conventional ain’t for me,” Fury said. “One day I wake up in a good mood, the other I’m down and depressed. I’m starting to really understand myself now after 31 years.”
Fury’s unpredictability was displayed in December when he and Davison suddenly split, just days after the trainer was scouting Wilder’s most recent fight in person at the MGM Grand.
Fury reached out to former fighter, confidant and current assistant coach Andy Lee, and expressed that he wasn’t satisfied with Davison anymore. In his last fight, Fury had a harder time than anticipated when he won by decision over the unheralded Otto Wallin, yet suffered two cuts across his right eye that required 47 stitches.
After considering over a dozen coaches, Lee and Fury zeroed in on Javon ‘SugarHill’ Steward, the nephew and disciple of the late, great trainer Emanuel Steward. Lee was coached his entire career by Emanuel and he believed Fury needed the renowned Kronk Gym mystique, attitude and mind-set.
Fury’s camp agreed that SugarHill was the authoritarian figure necessary to shape the fighter’s fiery personality and career — all while offering techniques on how to improve his power, much like Emanuel did with Thomas Hearns and Lennox Lewis during his heyday.
Fury’s relationship with the Stewards began in 2010 in Detroit at Kronk, and continued abroad in Austria and Canada. He remained friendly with the duo but never trained with them because Emanuel was coaching Klitschko, the foe he’d later overthrow.
"Emanuel and I connected like a house on fire. I liked to spend time with him. I brought on SugarHill to add a little bit more sugar to the cake,” Fury said. “I don’t think I have a missing ingredient. I’m unbeaten. I’m a finished article.”
The initial plan was for the U.K.-based Davison to remain with the team in Las Vegas and take a backseat to Steward as an assistant coach, but that idea was quickly dashed. Even though Davison had led Fury out of the dark days, the fighter said splitting with his trainer wasn’t difficult or emotional.
Boxer Tyson Fury, second from left, jogs with his team of trainers during a recent morning workout in Las Vegas.
(Wally Skalij/Los Angeles Times)
Tyson Fury, left, jogs with his trainers during a morning workout in Las Vegas.
(Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times)
“Ben and I haven’t had a falling out in any way, shape or form. It’s not personal,” Fury said. “This is my business and how I earn money to provide for my family. I have to make the right decisions for me.”
Davison still engages with Fury on social media and has a collage of pictures of the fighter across his profiles with remnants of their past.
“He’s my friend, and I want to keep it respectful,” Davison said. “I’m just happy to say that everything’s all good.”
Fury has also brought on Conor McGregor’s nutritionist George Lockhart, a former U.S. Marine. Fury is drinking eight liters of water and eating five meals a day, accounting for the most calories he’s ever consumed.
“Working with George has been a real big eye-opener,” Fury said. “He’s a food guru. I’m not losing weight. I’m already where I want to be. I feel strong and fit. If that stuff means anything, it will show in this fight.”
Steward, meanwhile, is tasked with preparing Fury to back his prediction of knocking out Wilder by the second round. They are avoiding punches to the head during sparring because they fear the cut could reopen and jeopardize the fight.
“The Kronk style produces knockouts,” Steward said. “We want to knock out the guy who knocks out everyone else — the biggest bully in the schoolyard — so everyone else in the division will take notice. That’s what Tyson wants, what I want, and what Emanuel would have wanted.”
Fury feels he’s always had knockout power, but never applied it in big fights because he preferred to stick-and-move around opponents. This time, he wants to stand toe-to-toe in the middle of the ring and slug it out with Wilder to shun the judges altogether.
“I hope the cut [over the eye] doesn’t hold up. I hope it opens in round one. Make it a real blood sport,” Fury said. “I got up after his two best shots last time. When you’ve been smashed, rocked and dropped, training, family or millions of fans can’t help you.
“You have to stand up and fight for what you believe in life — for every [mentally] unwell person in the world, for the oppressed people, for all the down and outs, bums, alcoholics, drug addicts and prostitutes — everybody. I fight for those people.”
Fury will make tens of millions of dollars for his bout against Wilder, but he said the career-high payday will not change him. He’s simply thankful for the fresh air he breathes today, and the blessing of keeping himself busy with the sweet science. What comes after retirement for Fury, a phase plenty of athletes struggle with, could perhaps prove harder to overcome than a punch any fighter swings his way.
“I hate holidays, I hate breaks, I hate festive seasons, I hate it all,” Fury said. “I’m a workaholic. I love being regimented. Some people want to get rich, retire on the beach and relax all day. I’d last about a week. ... doing that sort of stuff.
“People ask me, ‘What’s after boxing?’ I really don’t know. Boxing and training is the only thing that drives me. Nothing else matters. If I can’t train anymore, that’s the day I die. I’m just being honest.”
Podcast: Using Music to Spark Your Inner Hero
Are you a badass? Do you want to be? We all know that music has the ability to affect mood, and today’s guest takes that to the next level by helping you craft a personalized playlist to evoke specific feelings and emotions. Kelly Orchard’s unique program could help you find your inner badass. Using music and a variety of psychotherapy tools, Kelly helps individuals and groups become more confident, more productive and most importantly, more badass.
SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW Guest information for ‘Badass’ Podcast Episode
Kelly Orchard is a professional speaker, author and trainer and Licensed Psychotherapist. In addition to more than 30 years in the business of broadcasting, she has a Master’s Degree in Psychology and a Bachelor’s Degree in Social Science with an emphasis in Organizational Leadership. Kelly specializes in working with businesses and individuals in times of trouble, turmoil and transition, by creating a positive and profitable workplace. Kelly’s strategic coaching and leadership tools are a reliable, repeatable process that has been proven in the workplace. Kelly is a powerful story-teller – a craft she honed with her three decades in radio as part of family-owned operation, FCC Compliance consulting, and visiting hundreds of broadcast facilities. She is the author of 5 books, including her Prescriptive Memoir, Heart Lessons and her series of self-help books, Kelly Orchard’s Apple A Day, for daily nourishment for wisdom, success and personal growth.
About The Psych Central Podcast Host
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
Computer Generated Transcript for ‘Music Hero’ Episode
Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Announcer: Welcome to the Psych Central Podcast, where each episode features guest experts discussing psychology and mental health in everyday plain language. Here’s your host, Gabe Howard.
Gabe Howard: Welcome to this week’s episode of the Psych Central Podcast. Calling into the show today we have Kelly Orchard, who uses her psychology education and her experience in radio to help people create their own badass soundtrack. In her own words, she uses a CBT, solutions focused, positive psychology, and neuroscience approach to helping people live better lives. Kelly, welcome to the show.
Kelly Orchard: Thank you so much, Gabe. I am thrilled to be here today.
Gabe Howard: I am thrilled to have you because I think that you might be the first licensed psychologist that I’ve ever worked with, that named what she does “badass.” Just the word badass is right there and I love that. Can you tell me why you decided to do that?
Kelly Orchard: Well, you know, my background is in radio. You know, you do a lot of stunts. You do a lot of things to create a buzz and get your name out there. And so, you know, becoming a psychotherapist, I do some stuff with my branding and whatnot, which we can talk about later. But I’ve always been called a badass. People have referred to me as, “Man, Kelly, you’re really badass.” I knew that it meant something significant. And so I decided, well, I want to work with badasses. So that’s how it first evolved, it was that I want to work with people who identify with that whole concept of themselves.
Gabe Howard: One of the primary reasons that I wanted to have you on the show is because I wrote a book called Mental Illness Is an Asshole and I got a lot of pushback. You know, they’re like, oh, that that’s that, you know, this is this is serious. Why are you talking about that? Why are you saying ass? They were always kind of whispering. And my reasoning for that was because I felt very strongly that when people lay awake at night, they’re not worried about themselves in psychological terms. They’re not thinking medically. They’re thinking in the words that all of us use. Did that have an effect on you? I mean, because people do want to be badasses. They don’t necessarily know that they want to be emotionally well off.
Kelly Orchard: That’s a good point. A really good point. But you’re right. Yes. A little bit of blowback when I first started toying with using the word. But the more I just kind of put it out there, anybody who had an adverse response to the word badass usually typically either, you know, the older generation and they’re used to you know, everything is polite and nicely worded. And you don’t use that kind of word. We can use my mom as an example. She’s very opposed to this. But she’s also in her 80s. Mostly, the response has been fantastic. I get where you’re coming from. It’s like Mental Illness is an Asshole. You’re absolutely right. So why not identify it that way? It is serious, but we can also kind of identify it enough in a way that we understand it.
Gabe Howard: Does this open up avenues of conversation for you? Are people much more willing to discuss their issues or concerns or problems when they know that they’re on the road to becoming a badass vs. considering themselves in like a patient modality?
Kelly Orchard: Well, you know, I work with two separate populations with that. In my psychotherapy practice, I do promote the badass acronym with my clients and they love it because they’re already in a program admitting that they have depression or anxiety. That’s primarily what I treat, along with comorbid issues like a long term chronic illness or stuff like that, maybe grief and loss. But in the general population, I would call that, like in the business community, yes, they love defining themselves as badass and being on the road to becoming licensed to be badass. When I say I certify badasses, they’re like, well, how can I get certified? I want that. It opens up the conversation on what it takes.
Gabe Howard: Which is where we want to be. We want people talking about this more. Now, you said that badass was an acronym.
Kelly Orchard: Yes.
Gabe Howard: What does badass stand for?
Kelly Orchard: I’ve taken a blend of some of these psychotherapeutic tools, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy, that’s the CBT, and some neuroscience, solution focused that I use and I put them into a program. So BADASS is an acronym. So the B stands for “Be bold, be brave, be confident, be yourself.” But if you don’t know yourself, how can you be yourself? So I teach different methods on how to really get in touch with who you are. Personality tests and temperament tests, and what are your strengths getting into your core values. Things like that.
Gabe Howard: And that’s just the B.
Kelly Orchard: That’s just the B, yes.
Gabe Howard: That’s just the B.
Kelly Orchard: That’s just the B.
Gabe Howard: The B, and then we then we move on to the first A.
Kelly Orchard: Right.
Gabe Howard: Because there are a lot of A’s in here.
Kelly Orchard: Well, there’s a couple of A’s. The first A stands for “Attitude is everything.” Because I’m sure, Gabe, you and I both know that a positive attitude will get you a whole lot further than a negative attitude.
Gabe Howard: Agreed.
Kelly Orchard: Part of what I teach is to flip that format on the negativity and increase positivity because your attitude determines your success. So there’s some tools that I use in how to create that positive attitude. Then the D in BADASS stands for “Decide.” Because, you know, that’s a big critical factor. You have to decide that you want to be well and you have to make that decision to do it. And so then we go through, you know, being determined and dedicated to the process and disciplined.
Gabe Howard: And then we get to the next A, right? We get to A number two.
Kelly Orchard: Yes, A number two that stands for “Awareness” or self-awareness. I teach a lot about emotional intelligence. Being aware of your surroundings, being aware of your feelings and your emotions at the moment, and then of course, acknowledging your weaknesses and your strengths. I also do a lot with “Amplify,” because I love to use music in my programs and then the first S is “Stay the course.” This is where a lot of us get hung up. If what we want doesn’t happen quickly enough, we give up. So this teaches you to stay the course and persevere and keep going. And I teach different ways how you can do that. And then, of course, the last S just means “Successfully BADASS.” So that’s the BADASS acronym. And so I have have a program that I just take them through the process so they get their license to be badass. You know, when you got your driver’s license, it felt pretty badass. Right?
Gabe Howard: Yeah, I did. It felt awesome.
Kelly Orchard: It did. It felt so awesome. So anybody can relate to that when you get your driver’s license. But the truth of the matter is that you’d already studied. You already knew the rules of the road and took the tests in order to pass to get your permit. Then you already got behind the wheel and practiced driving so that then you had some competence behind the wheel. So when you went to go take your license exam, you already knew all this information. But the license gave you credibility. It gave you confidence. So I take that whole concept into the badass program. You’re probably already badass because you’ve been through the storms of life. You’ve failed, you’ve lost something like a home, a job or a relationship. You stumble, you’ve had a health crisis, whatever it is. You’ve overcome it. You’ve gotten through it. And you’re badass because you’re not quitting. All you need is your license to give you the confidence and credibility to keep going.
Gabe Howard: So let’s be practical for a moment. So let’s say that I contact you and I say, you know, I’m anxious or I’m depressed. There’s something in my life that I don’t like. And I’m intrigued by becoming a licensed badass. What is my step one?
Kelly Orchard: The badass program starts out with I teach a workshop to get you certified, so that’s a badass certification class and think of it like CPR for your mental health, an instant attitude adjustment and then an injection of positivity to get you started. And that’s where I introduce and initially teach you how to create your badass soundtrack, which I already have used this several times and it’s proven to be really a great tool for an instant reduction of anxiety symptoms or improving the mood or confidence. So that’s where I usually start.
Gabe Howard: What’s interesting to me is you don’t actually get a license to be a badass. I mean, the state doesn’t send you a laminated card that you can show police officers when you’re driving your Ferrari. But when you say you create a soundtrack that helps with symptom reduction, that’s not an analogy.
Kelly Orchard: No.
Gabe Howard: You’re actually utilizing music on on devices that we all have in our pockets right now to find songs that speak to the person that help them feel better. I think that everybody understands that music is helpful, but nobody’s actually utilizing music to be helpful.
Kelly Orchard: Well, that’s why I think that my program is starting to really catch fire as people are starting to discover it. I’m actually even working with a licensed music therapist on this as well. Getting back to the whole, you don’t really get a license. The state doesn’t, no, but I do. When you do finish that certification class, I do give you a little I.D. card that fits in your wallet that says you’re a certified badass. It’s kind of cool.
Gabe Howard: Nice,
Kelly Orchard: Stick it by your driver’s license. So that’s fun. A nice daily affirmation. Every time you open up your wallet, you’re reminded. Oh, yeah, that’s right. I’m a certified badass. It’s awesome.
Gabe Howard: Sweet.
Kelly Orchard: And then when they go through my full program and they get to the end of it, I do send them like a diploma. It looks like an actual college degree diploma that says licensed to be badass with your name on it. So that’s part of the fun part, yes. Is it recognized by the state? No. I think you can put on your resume for sure though, you know.
Gabe Howard: That’s awesome.
Kelly Orchard: Yeah. Yeah. But the badass soundtrack. You know, I can say I discovered it doing some of my own psychotherapy work on myself, a little self-care and how I discovered this is, I got a new car and the car came with satellite radio. Now I’m a terrestrial radio girl. I’m a second generation broadcaster, so I would never pay for satellite radio. But while you have it, why not use it? So while I’m driving around in the car, I would scan through all these satellite radio programming that I could get and the stations. And I discovered the 70s on seven channels. Some of these songs you never hear any more because this format. Radio formats are all split up or you may not have access to them in your own streaming device or not even seek to go back to that particular genre, which for me was years of my childhood. So it’s starting to stir up memories as I’m hearing these songs, reminding me of an event that was going on or a timeframe in my life. And that’s what sort of prompted me and introduced me to hey, there’s something to this because I was going through a period of grief and working on some very personal struggles. But the music was making me feel better. And so I went back into some of my studies. And I loved studying neuroscience. And, you know, in 2009, there was a study by the National Institute of Health.
Kelly Orchard: They did a study on people practicing gratitude, writing in a gratitude journal. They did the study and found that the people who practice gratitude, their hypothalamus, was really fired up. And that’s the organ in our brain that regulates our hormones and our stress levels. And they said that these people had lowered stress levels due to the fact that they were practicing gratitude. Well, it’s the same hormone as you do when you have happy memories and nostalgia. So I thought, well, why not put together a badass soundtrack with songs that you personally can attach to a happy memory, that when you allow yourself, getting back to one of the A’s in BADASS, when you allow it to work for you, it can be an instant change of your mindset, like changing the radio station or, you know, flipping the format. And I started testing it out on some of my clients because I knew it worked for me. Tested that on some of my clients, works great for them, created a class. Now I’m teaching people how to do this by utilizing neuroscience, cognitive behavioral therapy, going back and doing some nostalgia and reminiscing, which is part of where the narrative comes in. And then the solutions focus. Now, what are we gonna do with it if this works? Let’s do more of it. So it does prove to be an instant attitude adjustment. You’re right.
Gabe Howard: We’ll be right back after this message.
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Gabe Howard: And we’re back speaking with Kelly Orchard about how to become a licensed badass. Kelly, I just have to know what is on your badass soundtrack.
Kelly Orchard: I’ll tell you one story that is really funny to me. And thank you for asking. So I was sharing the concept with a colleague of mine. In fact, he was my mentor as I was working toward getting licensed. So I respect him highly. He is also a professional musician, a guitar player. So we have that musical connection as well. So we’re sharing this with him, and he asked me the same thing. So what’s on your soundtrack? And I tell him, Joy to the World from the Three Dog Night, which is a song from the 70s.
Gabe Howard: Yeah.
Kelly Orchard: He looks at me because he’s a serious guitarist. He goes, Why? That’s not a badass song. I’m like, well, it maybe doesn’t make you feel badass. But it has, it means something to me. You know, we said when we had our radio station, we were an oldies station for a while. It was a family run radio station. And my brothers and I were also on the air. And so one of my brothers was doing the morning show and, you know, with a radio formatting, not everybody you hear on the air actually is in the studio, or works at the studio. You have, you know, you have different segments. Somebody will call in. So, for example, we subscribe to a traffic segment. So this gentleman would call in to do the traffic. And there was always some sort of a bumper of music. You know, in between the segments. So the traffic director’s name was David Jeremiah. And so my brother would play the song to the opening of Three Dog Night. He says, All right, everybody, we’ve got the traffic director. David, my good friend David, and it goes right into the lyrics, “Jeremiah was a bullfrog, was a good friend of mine.” And so for me, that reminds me of a really fun time when my family owned a radio station. Remember I told you when I first discovered the badass soundtrack, I was going through some of my own grief work. The brother that we were singing the song Joy to the World with, he passed away a few years ago. I was working through the process of grieving my brother. So when this song came up and it triggered that memory, of course it made me happy. And it reminded me of my brother and it had to make it on to my badass soundtrack.
Gabe Howard: Of course, I’m sorry to hear about your brother, but what’s interesting is, you know, to me, when you first started talking about a badass soundtrack, I was thinking of like all the, you know, the strong bass line and the upbeat music. And it sounds like the way that you pick these songs are things that elicit strong memories and strong happy memories. Not necessarily, you know, the boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, the things that get you excited to go to a sporting event.
Kelly Orchard: Right.
Gabe Howard: Is that true?
Kelly Orchard: Well, you know, basically what you’re doing is you’re stirring up different types of emotions which are sparking off different neurotransmitters in your brain, that dopamine in the serotonin levels. So depends on what it is that you need. If you need confidence, I’ve got a song for myself that builds that builds my confidence. It’s a reminder of a time I stood up for myself or I won. So, yes, I do encourage you to utilize those lyrics and those words that pump you up. But it’s much a different playlist. It’s going to help you with your workout or going to a sporting event is going to be completely different than one that’s going to help you reduce the symptoms of anxiety or improve your mindset or give you the confidence you need to walk into a meeting or have the conversation that you need to have with somebody different. So it’s just a matter of how you strategize it. And I do teach. I go through the steps on how to get to that point. It’s a fun. It’s a fun exercise. So when I tell clients it’s like to do your homework, it’s like who would will not want to do the homework for this — sampling music?
Gabe Howard: So you assign this to your clients, to your patients, you say what I want you to do is go home and make a badass soundtrack. What instructions do you give them?
Kelly Orchard: It really depends on, you know, who is there in my psychotherapy practice. One song at a time because I only see them. I don’t see them again for a week. When I teach my workshop. I have a whole section dedicated just for that. And I teach them basically how to stir up some memories. You can’t put the cart before the horse. You know, it’s like I can’t expect them to have these memories before they hear the music. It’s the music that usually triggers the memory. Right. That makes them feel good. So like, for example, that this is one of my first go-to ones is getting back to driving. Getting back to when you had your driver’s license. What was the first car that you were driving around? So then they’ll talk about the car that they drove around. Then the next step, the next question is what music might you have been listening to when you were that age and driving around in your car? Well, the next thing you know, they’re talking about the music of that era of when they were probably 16, 17, 18 years old, which is when your memories are really starting to take hold and you want to remember them. The ones that make you feel bad ass, such as graduating from high school, your first road trip, your first prom, falling in love, getting an A on a test. Getting your driver’s license. Things like that. So then I take them through that process of the first car, and then we start sampling the music of that era. And then once we start sampling a little bit of music here and there, then I’d say find one song that represents that particular incident. Like they’ll still tell a story. But I remember when my friends took a road trip up the coast in. What song were you guys been listening to on that road trip? And they find this song. Then they have that. Then they add it to their bed. That soundtrack helps them feel independent, autonomous, grown up.
Gabe Howard: How often should they listen to this soundtrack? And the reason that I ask specifically is because it just seems like if it’s going to work and make you feel better, just never turn it off. Just let it play 24/7. But but but obviously that’s that’s not going to work. So it it seems like there’s probably criteria for when it will work and when it won’t. And also kind of as a follow up question to that, we don’t want to not handle our issues because we’re too busy listening to music. And I know that’s not your intent.
Kelly Orchard: Yeah, that’s not the intent, and I appreciate you saying that. So first of all, how often should you listen to it? As often as you would need to have that positive mindset. You know, it’s like, well, we talk about you practice positive thoughts, gratitude. They’ll help you get through the day. But it’s not a matter of being Pollyanna. This is actually changing the brain chemistry. So when you think about it as often as you do it, it’s kind of like working out, you know, exercising your muscles while your brain’s a muscle, too. So the more you do it, the more it’s going to benefit you. But the benefit is it’s not like listening to music all the time to make you feel better. It’s actually the positivity that changing your brain chemistry is giving you an opportunity to see things in a different perspective and get fresh ideas to the solution to the problems that you have. So like for me, example, is if I’m having a stressful situation, I know that thinking about it and worrying about it isn’t gonna do anything. But if I listen to a song that’s going to shift my mindset, I’ll probably come up with a better answer to solve that problem. Either that or it’s going to resolve itself because, well, the song just told me that I got through this problem. I can get through this one, too. So that’s kind of what the soundtrack will do for you. I also cut it down and we break it down into different segments of your life. So at any given time, there should be at least 40 to 50 songs on your soundtrack. So there’s 20 different songs that you can play. So plan is not to get desensitized to certain songs. So having a decent soundtrack but listening as often as you’d like the same as when you go out for a walk as often as you want, write in your journal as many times as you need to practice gratitude all day long. You know, it’s like you can always flip back and forth.
Gabe Howard: And just to clarify, the music is supposed to spur action. The music isn’t the action. It’s supposed to get you pumped up to be active, to face the challenge and to be a badass, because after all, nobody can be a badass if they’re sitting at home listening to music. Right.
Kelly Orchard: Well, they really depends because, you know, part of that part of the badass is that in order for us to have fresh ideas, it’s like not to be busy all the time. So sometimes you just need to relax and even allow yourself to get bored because that’s when the fresh ideas come up in. The brainstorms really start to happen in your brain’s like free to do those things. But you’re right, it is to spur action. You know, I had a client who acknowledged that her life as a child was complete chaos. And, you know, the perspective was that she’d had a horrible upbringing and couldn’t really reconcile with that and couldn’t talk to her mother anymore because the mother had died. So we started working on about our soundtrack and got to some of the music that she listened to in her childhood. And when she rediscovered a song from the Go-Go’s, it took her back to a time period where she and her little friend would play, dance and dress up in the bedroom, even though everything was crazy going on outside that room. The two of them had that feeling of safety and bonding in a bedroom. And it helped her to reframe some of her childhood experiences just because of one song. So that’s how it can be helpful. It’s just a new method that I’ve been developing.
Gabe Howard: It sounds very, very cool. And again, I don’t think that anybody is surprised by the idea that music can take you on an emotional journey.
Kelly Orchard: Oh, no.
Gabe Howard: And your connection of using music for that emotional journey and then harnessing that to move forward in your life. I really think it’s just common sense. Right. So it’s amazing that it took so long to come up with it. But I’m glad that you did. And I think that our listeners are gonna be better off for it. Speaking of which, where can our listeners find you?
Kelly Orchard: Well, I have a Web site which is Licensed2BBadass.com, and it’s the number two, not the word to, Licensed2BBadass.com, and find me there. I’m on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. I’m everywhere on social media. I also have a podcast, Kelly Orchard’s Apple a Day listed on Apple, i-Tunes Stitcher and Spotify. Also a YouTube channel. Oh, my gosh. Almost forgot that.
Gabe Howard: What’s the YouTube channel?
Kelly Orchard: The YouTube channel is my name. Kelly Orchard. I have a little fun series that I do. I also drive a 2006 Mustang, so I’ve been doing little videos inside the car with people called Mustang Monday, Badass Tips from the Street so you can catch the videos on my YouTube channel.
Gabe Howard: Nice.
Kelly Orchard: Yeah, they’re just a little short, brief ones, business, mental health, personal development, me a conversation with somebody else in my car. Carpool. Karaoke for mental health.
Gabe Howard: Carpool karaoke for mental health. Well, I love it. Well, thank you so much, Kelly, for hanging out with us. I really appreciate it.
Kelly Orchard: Gabe it was truly an honor.
Gabe Howard: Thank you and everybody else, do you want to interact with the show on Facebook, suggest topics, comment on the show or be the first to get updates? You can join our Facebook group. A quick link is psych central dot com slash f B show. And as I ask every week, I’m basically pleading at this point. I would consider it a personal favor if you told a friend, referred us on social media, emailed somebody or hey, just left us a review. Give us as many stars as possible and use your words to tell people why they should listen. And remember, you can get one week of free, convenient, affordable, private online counseling anytime, anywhere, simply by visiting our sponsor. Better help dot com slash psych central. We will see everybody next week.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Psych Central Podcast. Previous episodes can be found at PsychCentral.com/show or on your favorite podcast player. To learn more about our host, Gabe Howard, please visit his website at GabeHoward.com. PsychCentral.com is the internet’s oldest and largest independent mental health website run by mental health professionals. Overseen by Dr. John Grohol, PsychCentral.com offers trusted resources and quizzes to help answer your questions about mental health, personality, psychotherapy, and more. Please visit us today at PsychCentral.com. If you have feedback about the show, please email [email protected] Thank you for listening and please share widely.
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MBCT| How the Duo Help People In Battling Depression
Several studies have now examined that Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy works better than antidepressants to deal with depression relapses- the ancient wisdom and the 21st-century science have now joined hands to fight with depression.
Have you ever found yourself wrestling with crippling darkness and despair? The darkness that sucks you and you feel like your life is ending? You keep on drowning into the sea of negative thoughts, and in extreme conditions, you may think to end your life. This feeling is frightening!
Depression leads you to a state where you feel low and have a lack of interest even in usually pleasurable activities.
Today a million Americans are experiencing a high depression. 60% of people who experience a single relapse of depression, the chances are they encounter a second while 90% of people who go through three relapses are likely to have a fourth. Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy is taking its toll to address the vulnerability of depression and to pull a person out of misery.
The excellent duo of the traditional mindfulness practice and cognitive therapy was developed to prevent relapse in people who experience depressive disorders. MBCT helps on the mechanism of mindfulness, self-compassion, and cognitive reactivity by triggering the repetitive negative thinking and bring changes in life. Even though MBCT has not widespread outside urban areas, many pieces of research have proven the results of this self-help variation as promising.
To know how the therapy works, first, you need to understand the basics. So, read on.
What is Mindfulness?
Mindfulness is the process of staying in the present moment or accepting yourself without being judgmental. It means to stay focused on the current situation so you can make wise choices for your life.
Mindfulness helps in altering the neural expressions of sadness and reduces neural reactivity to negative thought patterns.
What is Cognitive Therapy?
Cognitive therapy aims to help a person to re-assess the negative thought patterns and replace them with a positive one. It is a process to find relief from dysfunctional thinking that is activated by stressful life events that lead to depression.
What is Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy (MBCT)?
MBCT derives from cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) and traditional mindfulness practices such as meditation, breathing exercises, and stretching. It helps break the negative thought patterns and prevent relapses in recurrent depression.
It is evidence-based group therapy for preventing depressive relapse and treating mood disorders. It reduces depression, anxiety, and stress.
Many real-life pieces of evidence show the effectiveness of Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy in reducing the risk of relapse of recurrent depression. On average, it is 43%. It is an accessible treatment for people without letting them face the side effects of anti-depressants drugs.
“MBCT is the gold standard to cope with depression for the people who wants to learn this powerful approach.” Said Daniel Goleman, Ph.D, and author of Emotional Intelligence.
Sometimes normal sadness can become a reason that triggers the depressive relapse into a person who has been recovered from a depressive state. By practicing mindfulness meditation, a person can eliminate sadness and change his/her way of thinking. It rebalances the neural networks and allows the person to think positive about life.
In the MBCT approach, the MBCT therapist can guide a person to use cognitive methods and mindfulness meditation to reduce the depression triggering thoughts. When a person experiences an episode of depression, he/she may have a low mood and negative memories from the past, which leads to physical sensations like fatigue.
MBCT helps people to accept their real-self separate from their thoughts and moods. When they can separate between thoughts, emotions, and the self, they will learn the art of living with their thoughts without being judgmental. This insight can boost the healing process and let them learn to interject positive thoughts into negative moods.
MBCT is a group intervention program of eight weeks. Each week has 2 hours, of course, and one day-long class after the fifth week.
Most of the practice is done outside the class where participants are advised to use guided meditations and try to cultivate mindfulness in their lives.
MBCT is done with people in the university with severe depression when nothing helps, no medications, electric shocks, and medicinal psychiatry doesn’t help; people who were depressed deeply, and recovered from the medications, will found get in the depressive state again.
MBCT cut the bay of relapse of having a depression again by 50%. If this were a drug, some pharmaceutical companies would be making billions of dollars, but it is not a drug, and it is free.
Daniele Goleman, Psychologist and science journalist, says.
When people are depressed, they enter into a new sort of depression, which causes a relapse.
MBCT helps elect your mind to feel about a specific thing; you will see judgments and evaluations. People who had chronic pain being present with it has remarkable results.
Another positive thing about MBCT is that it enhances people’s ability to feel the reward. Feel positive effect, positive emotion in the course of their everyday lives, which is vital.
Because it is a tough sell for many people with depression who are feeling unwell and feeling that if there is depression behind them,
said Zindel Segal, co-founder of Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy, on the topic.
Scientists have gone through multiple pieces of research and found positive outcomes of MBCT. Here are some snippets of the results for your ease.
Recent studies suggested that university students are more prone to mental health problems than the general population. And the health condition could be improved by introducing MBCT. The study was published in Education Research International to measure the efficacy of mindfulness-based cognitive therapy (MBCT) on university students in the U.K.
In the research, 57 medical students were recruited to an eight-week mindfulness program in which they are required to attend the training for two hours each week and commit to 30-minute daily home practice in between sessions. The training includes the sessions on how stress impacts one’s life, how the mind works, how stress triggers, warning signs of stress, coping techniques, meditation practice, and the importance of self-care.
The results suggested that mindfulness training had helped students reduce anxiety, negative thought patterns, excessive worry, improve resiliency to stress, and enhance professional development and emotional wellbeing.
2. As effective as anti-depressants
MBCT has performed very well in randomized clinical trials. About thousands of patients have been evaluated using this approach across seven studies worldwide, and the results were quite amazing.
The results found, suggested that, when compared to usual care, MBCT reduce relapse by 43% and compares to anti-depressant medications, it provides equal protection against relapse as continuing on an anti-depressant for longer period of time.
It has the same benefits as anti-depressants, then why taking the pills and get unwanted side effects when you can get effective results without any side effects?
3. Reduce psychological distress and promote well being
You can’t deny the fact of having psychological distress and mental health problems in individuals living with chronic illness. It negatively affects overall health, as well as their capacity to function in everyday life.
A research was conducted to find the effectiveness of MBCT in treating depressive disorders in individuals, and the findings demonstrate that MBCT is highly effective in preventing relapse for individuals who have experienced three or more episodes of depression.
MBCT helps individuals to disengage from repetitive negative thought patterns by shifting perspective from mindless cognitive processing to a more engaged mindful processing of experience.
The participants who were experiencing elevated depression, anxiety, or at risk of increased depression or anxiety, were subjected to MBCT. The results of the studies suggest that MBCT may be effective in targeting anxiety and depression in primary care settings reduced it. It has also found that it has improved psychological well-being in individuals living with persistent illness and any other health challenges or life stressors. It also strengthens self-esteem, resilience, and general well-being.
4. Efficacy of MBCT for depression
Many systematic reviews have shown that MBCT significantly reduces the risk of relapse and related symptoms for individuals in depressive remission. MBCT is effective at reducing the rate of depressive relapse in individuals. Empirical evidence has shown that MBCT is an effective intervention in this context.
An increasing number of published studies have shown that there appear to be specific active ingredients in MBCT that are leading to treatment gains. Mindfulness, one such active ingredient, certainly warrants continued to study as our knowledge of different facets of the meditative experience develops.
MBCT has shown to be an effective therapy in treating depression. It has reduced the rate of depressive relapse along with a reduction of depressive symptoms.
5. MBCT for adults with ADHD
Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is another mental health condition in which MBCT have shown evidence-based psychosocial treatments for adult alongside the usual treatment. The promising psychological treatment MBCT has shown to have efficacy in reducing core symptoms in adults with ADHD.
A randomized controlled trial was arranged in which participants were randomly assigned to an 8-weekly group therapy, which includes meditation exercises, psycho-education, and group discussions. Along with the TAU usual treatment in the Netherlands. The primary outcome was ADHD symptoms rated by blinded clinicians. Secondary outcomes were self-reported ADHD symptoms, executive functioning, mindfulness skills, self-compassion, positive mental health, and general functioning.
There was a significant reduction in clinician-rated ADHD symptoms. More MBCT + TAU patients showed a ⩽30% reduction in ADHD symptoms than TAU participants. Participants with MBCT+ TAU also reported significant improvements in mindfulness skills, positive mental health, and self-compassion, which were maintained until a 6-month follow-up. Although patients with TAU reported no improvement in executive functioning at post-treatment. So it was found suggested that MBCT could be a valuable treatment option for adult ADHD aimed at alleviating symptoms.
Wrap up
From analyzing all the research, what do you think? Is MBCT is the future of the therapy? Does it help people fight with their illness more effectively? Does MBCT help reduce the chances of recurrence of diseases and other mental health conditions? Share your thoughts in the comments section.
It’s time to free yourself from chronic unhappiness and practice MBCT to find a way out from the dark world of anxieties and negativity. MBCT will be the next anti-depressant that will not give you any side effects like your traditional anti-depressant drugs. Your life is worthy, and you deserve to live happily. Get up and fight.
Stay Mindful!
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